018 TERRY ADAIR

On today’s show our guest is Terry M. Adair, DDS. Terry is an oral and maxillofacial radiologist, author, and founder of the Fusion Star Project. His work explores the role of energy as the fundamental limiting factor of life, intelligence, and advanced civilization. He is the author of Where Are the Little Green Men?: The Adair Hypothesis, which reframes the search for extraterrestrial life through the lens of thermodynamics, energy availability, and the constraints required for civilizations to emerge and persist.

Transcript

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So you were looking for something to listen to, and you ended up here. What's up? My name is Ethan, and I'm the host of the show. Over the past 25 years, I've had a wild group of people walk through my tattoo shop and tell me some of the craziest stories you would never hear unless you were sitting in that chair. I've invited a few of these maniacs to join me and talk about everything, anything, and nothing. Whether it's about UFOs, aliens, food, conspiracies, or whatever, you're sure to be entertained and probably get a laugh out of it. Or you're gonna think we're a bunch of nutjobs and never come back again. Either way, you're here with us now, so sit back, relax, take cruise control, and enjoy the ride. Welcome to the Tat Chat Podcast. And myself, and today we have a guest, an author of Dental Surgeon, I believe. And uh his name is Terry Adair, DDS at Oral and Maxillo, is it what Maxillo? Facial radiology, author and founder of the Fusion Star Project. His work explores the role of energy as the fundamental limiting factor of life, intelligence, and advanced civilization. He is the author of Where Are the Little Green Men, the Adair Hypothesis, which reframes the search for extra extraterrestrial life through the lens of thermodynamics, energy, availability, and the constraints required for civilizations to emerge and persist. So on the phone we have Terry Adair. Terry, how are you doing? Ethan, thank you very much for that very nice introduction. I really appreciate that. I'm doing great. Yeah. Um I'm in uh I'm in Lake Tahoe. Lake Tahoe. What what's that time frame right now? Pacific time zone. Lake Tahoe is right on the border of California California, Nevada. So we're in the Pacific time zone. Oh, so you're like four o'clock, right around dinner time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thank you very much. Yeah. Uh we're well, we're stoked to have you. We uh excited about this one. Yeah, we um we talk about a lot of stuff on this podcast. The original idea was I'm gonna talk about I own a tattoo shop and I'm in a professional band and I do all sorts of crazy things. I thought, hey, I want to do a podcast, talk to all my customers while I'm tattooing, and it didn't really work out that way. I ended up being one of my guys I tattooed, which is Josh, is just as much of a maniac as I am, and he just is a really great way of communicating. So we started this podcast, and now it's turned into we just talk to all sorts of people about crazy things and things that they're doing, and uh then we kind of fill their head full of our insane stuff. So welcome to the podcast, Terry. Thank you for having me. And I I believe that what we're gonna discuss today is gonna be very enlightening and illuminating for you and for your audience. Um, maybe a little bit different take on some of the things you've heard before. And the way you described it is awesome. You said it perfectly using a lot of big scientific terms. And the key word that you put in there is energy, and that's what we're gonna focus on today. And we're gonna discuss energy in a way that most of us aren't familiar talking about it. Not getting all fancy and technical, but just trying to bring it down to earth for people to get a better grasp on. Yeah, I read the book and uh and I was going to share it with Josh, but it took forever to come in. I didn't get it on time, and I was gonna give it to him to check out the bummer. But he got to do some research on it and stuff, and we watched uh he watched some of your videos and stuff talking about it, breaking down the book and stuff. So um thank you. Yeah, so obviously after reading the book, um you uh have a thing for energy. I do have a thing for energy. And you know, um you you got that word so close, even I stumble on it. Not easy to say. Oh, yeah. What was yeah, so I'm a radiologist. I'm a radiologist. I'm a radiologist, and you're right that I'm a dentist, and I'm a specialist in dental radiology. So my my job is to read CT scans. So, like a regular radiologist that many of you had experience with, you go to you go, you get some sort of imaging, and then sometime later a report comes back from a radiologist. You never see the radiologist. That's what I do in dentistry. Yeah. So I'm an oral and maxillofacial radiologist. I have a question for you. So when you go in, you you bring your kids in and they they gotta have like a cavity filled or something like that. You take a picture, and then they see the teeth, like, okay, we gotta do this right here, and we gotta fix this tooth over here, too. You're like, okay, cool. So we're gonna do one at a time. So the kid goes in, fix the tooth, and like, we'll set you up an appointment for two weeks. You go back in two weeks, they're like, let's take more pictures. Like, come on, guy, what are you doing? We just took pictures. Yeah. Yeah. Uh first of all, I'm gonna try to reassure you and your your audience that download radiographs and medical radiographs are not harmful to people in the way we think they are. That doesn't excuse taking unnecessary images. The biggest problem is cost. Um, you're not gonna you're not gonna get hurt for them. The the actual x-ray energy doses that are used today in modern radiology are so low, they're inconsequential. You're just not going to, they're not harmful. So that's the good news. But again, there's no reason to take them needlessly. If you're if you're imaging the same area you did two or three weeks before, I agree with you. Not not that's not cool, but it's not harmful either. Yeah, my sister used to work it, my sister-in-law used to work in radiology, and uh, she did it for years. She she got all these extra degrees in in the in the hospital. She worked at we're we're in northern New York. She used to work at Potsdam uh Hospital. And um and uh she ended up uh she always wanted to be a state trooper, and um when she was I think the cutoff's 30 years old to be a trooper. She applied a long time ago, and I think she was 29, and they call her and say, Hey, you want to be a trooper? So she left radiology and now she's uh uh a a BCI uh an investigator for the state police. So no kids a lot. What a great career trajectory that is. Yeah, total total trade, totally jacks up people's teeth. No, she investigated. She's an investigator. So yeah. But yeah, so so I I read uh I read the book and I was I was checking out some of the stuff, and um and you know, if you want, you I before I botch this up, you know, you can break it down and stuff. And um, you know, when I read the title, Where Are All the Little Green Men? I mean, me and Josh are really into aliens and all this crazy stuff. And I got surprised I'm like and then I'm like, he doesn't believe in aliens. Um no let me let me let me um first of all say there's nothing more I like than a flying sauce from the land in my backyard. Well I'd love that more than anybody. So it's not a matter of disbelief. Oh, go ahead, go ahead. It's it's it's a matter of hope or wish. Of course, yeah. And and we're we're gonna we're gonna break that down. We're gonna make it realistic for people and and give them an idea. And my energy standpoint did not come from taking on that Fermi paradox. Um, mine came from what does it not only take to create a civilization, but to maintain it. Yeah. And I got to thinking that okay, we started on a barren, rocky, sterile planet. Planets do not come preloaded with little green men. That's not how it works at all. Yeah. Planets are created in a violent demolition derby of all these colliding rocks and masses and everything accreting around a also newly forming star. So the planets are forming basically at the same time that the star itself is forming. And so once that happens, you probably know that there's all of these collisions, and when there's a big collision, it basically liquefies the entire planet again. It's just molten over and over and over again. In fact, our own, you know, our own early Earth was hit by a planet we now call Thea that eventually became our moon. Yeah. And so all of these collisions are so violent. There's nothing on a barren, rocky new planet. So there's no life at all in there. So, along with the concept of evolution, and you know, a lot of this stuff is somewhat speculation, but it's more or less agreed on by the scientific community. Evolution comes back, pardon me, comes after abiogenesis. That's what we believe is the primitive start of life just from organic molecules. Now that's a big leap right there in itself. Okay, that but that's that's what is accepted in the scientific community. That not only do we start with simple organic molecules joining together into more complex molecular structures that eventually became self-replicating, enclosed in membranes, and you you guys probably already know the rest of the story. And that's when evolution took place. So all of that is founded on a biogenesis in a in a sterile, rocky planet. So, where do you um where do you fall into the mix with religion and God and creation? Yeah, thank you for talking about that. Um, you know, I don't really need to add my own take on it and take away from other people's experience. My book supports either way you look at it. Yeah. And here's the thing: you have to have energy, and we're gonna get into that in a shocking, I believe, a surprising imagery that I'm gonna present you and your audience about energy itself. And so whether we started through creationism or a biogenesis, wherever we started, you have to have energy. Yeah. If without energy, nothing, not even a handshake happens in the universe without exchange of energy. And planets don't come with energy. That's what everybody's that's that's what everybody this shocks me. I am not a natural biologist or a cosmologist. I'm a dentist. Yeah, but everybody skipped over the obvious thing. In science fiction movies, energy is assumed. You have these little spaceships flying around, and they may discuss warp drives and plasma drives and stuff like that, but you don't know any more about it than that. Right? Yeah, they jump over what does it take to build a civilization? You don't go from a campfire, I'm explosing the story already a little bit. You don't go from a campfire to a plasma drive. Yeah, it doesn't happen. You can't skip everything in between. There's two things. There's an energetic ladder that must be climbed for every civilization. There's no there's no skipping these steps. And once they lay it out, you guys will you say, oh man, how come nobody thought of this before? Once they lay out the energy ladder, it's gonna become obvious to people, but everyone just assumes that there's an abundant amount of energy. There's not people. Planets don't come with energy except one small extra two small exceptions. The energy that a planet comes with is its own internal heat because all those rocks that are colliding, right, and it's molten for a long time, for hundreds of millions of years, that heat is retained. Yeah. But eventually that heat will run out. You know what keeps our planet hot? Uranium, thorium, potassium. These these uh radioactive elements in our crust is what helps keep the dynamo going inside. If you ask my dad, he'll say if you ask my dad, he'll say it's leaving the door open in the winter is what keeps outside warm. But you know what? Every dad says that. What are you trying to do? Heat all of New York? Close the door. Were you raised raised in a barn? Exactly. Dads are dads are famous for that, so you're exactly right. So that that's where the internal heat comes from. So but we can use that uranium-thorium later in our civilization, like we do now. We use it, still we use the heat, we split molecules, right? We split other atoms. Yeah. You have all these these free neutrons bombarding each other, and they create heat. And a lot of people may not know when you see those big towers around a nuclear facility, that's not the reactor, that's the cooling tower. Yeah. Energy is generated by boiling water and turning a steam turbine. That sounds kind of primitive, but that's how we use nuclear fission. And eventually, nuclear fusion will do the same thing. You take that heat that's generated, you boil water, you turn the turbine, that's what generates your electricity. And again, I'm jumping jumping ahead of the energy dotter a little bit, but you're starting to grasp that nothing happens at all with without energy. And there's two energy trajectories in my story. One is life doesn't even begin without energy. Everyone knows when you heat something up, more reactions occur. So heat is the universal molecular catalyst. But there are other catalysts too. In the hydrothermal vents is where it's thought that the primitive life originated. And it takes energy to create molecular activity. So molecules and our life is based on carbon. We won't have time for this today, and I'd love to talk more about this because I can go, and there's so many rabbit holes I could go down. Yeah. If when I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say this for you and your audience, when we find life on another planet, whether it's simple bacteria or more advanced life forms, they will necessarily be carbon-based. Especially advanced life forms. And like haven't we haven't we already started discovering like microorganisms on the other? Yeah, there you go. Thank you very much. That that right there, it's that right there supports strongly my evidence. So when we have found these advanced organic molecules in comets, even on the moon, etc., they're carbon-based. That's exactly right. So that right there shows us it just inherently that's what the universe prefers. And it's not for anything, hey, we're we're we're biased against silicon. No, carbon is a better molecule. And again, we don't have the time to discuss why that's true. It just simply is true. It's just the preferred element for life. So once these molecules start taking off and start forming, you need some sort of gradient, whether it's a temperature gradient, a thermal gradient, whether it's an acid-based um environment, whether it's a proton gradient, you need something, your planet has to provide something. And minerals do also serve as catalysts. So minerals are in our in our you know primitive soil. And so that's where life takes off. Once you then get self-replicating molecules in the form of RNA and DNA, it again continues to require energy to make life happen. And we smolder along as simple-celled organisms for two billion years before complex molecules. So you have to have a surplus of energy to start exploring genetically with different ideas. DNA does not have the goal, let's make intelligence, let's make vision, let's make wings, let's make arms and legs. Those are incremental evolutions over hundreds of millions of years. And now here is one of two breaking points in my story, and this is essential. You guys are gonna look at this completely differently than I think people have in the past. Photosynthesis. You're thinking photosynthesis, yeah, trees do it everywhere. It's the most remarkable and important chemical equation on our planet. Get this carbon dioxide plus water plus light from our sun and a little bit of molecular magic makes the tree. So people have this is a misunderstanding of how this works. People, you may have heard that carbon dioxide is plant food. No, it is the plant. Yeah, the tree that you see is atmospheric CO2. The apple, that crunchy apple you bite into, it is CO2, it's atmospheric CO2. That sweetness, the sugar, it's the glucose, the fructose that's made from our atmospheric CO2, the rose that you smell, its actual perfume is made from molecular atmospheric CO2. That's amazing. So what you see, everything green came from atmospheric CO2 and water combined with sunlight and the magic of the chlorophyll, right? The chloroplast. So the chloroplast then starts creating surplus energy, and then life really took off. And we know that all this ancient small phytoplankton began in the ocean, taking hundreds of millions of years for it to creep onto land. Now it has a whole new thing to start to confront dryness, and the sun is more intense. And so slowly evolution prepared plant life to take over the soil we see comes from plant life. It was rocky and barren. We had land, barren land. What we see when we drive around is the result of four billion years of evolution, which is mind-boggling. So the earth didn't have any of this greenery. It started in the ocean and slowly crept out onto land. And it took many, many, many, many pardon me? I was gonna ask you. So so you're you're a dental surgeon. How do you know so much about this stuff? Is this just a hobby you've learned, or do you go to school for the stuff? Yeah, yeah. I I'm I'm the most boring guy in the room. I don't get invited to parties. I stay home and study this stuff. So so this is all self-taught. No, no, because this is that's a good question. Um dentistry is a profession completely grounded in science. It's a biological and physical science of profession. And so rather than forgetting all that stuff, I remembered it. Yeah. So most most dentists have I I'm not I'm not saying things that people probably haven't got taught over their lifetime. I have synthesized this into an idea, the Adair hypothesis that we're gonna get to, that people haven't, they just sort of skipped over it because it's not interesting to people, or they they haven't seen the tie-in in a way that I have. Well, what that's where it all came from. Yeah, when I was reading your book, I was like, okay, so I did. I felt like I was in a college like lecture or something like that, and the guy was teaching me stuff. I'm like, okay, I'm learning about energy, I'm learning about coal, I'm learning about I'm learning about like fossil fuels, I'm learning about you know um everything. And so as it as I'm reading the book, I'm like, okay, cool. And and I I just want to get to this real quick: the Fusion Star Project. What is the Fusion Star Project? Everything is energy based. The book is obviously energy based. So what is the Fusion Star Project? And this is you're the you're the founder of this, right? Yeah. You're the founder. I'm the founder of it. And and the Fusion Star Project is actually more important to me than my book. I want people to read my book because it's interesting and it answers the the Fermi paradox, and I'm going to get to that in a second. Yeah. Where is everybody? It answers that. But the Fusion Star Project is a nonprofit initiative that I've started for energy literacy, literacy, and education and energy policy. That's what I'm interested in. It's not political, it's just based on physics. Where do we go for a continued ongoing, thriving, and flourishing humanity? Not just for us. I don't want to center ourselves on the United States. Obviously, I'm biased. I love the United States. But do you know that one quarter of the world's population or about two billion people have either zero or low access to daily electricity? Some people use less electricity, literally, in a year than our refrigerator uses. It's amazing. So and so that that's that's not a technology issue. That's pure policy. That's all it is, it's entirely policy. It's not we we have technology to take, believe it or not, electricity anywhere in the world. And that's what I'm interested in. I'm interested in in this coal, oil, and gas. You're guys gonna be shocked by the buttons I'm gonna tell you soon. You're gonna be shocked by our our our energy demand. It's going to run out. And we have to prepare for that. I'm not Greta Thunberg saying the sky is falling and tomorrow the world's gonna come to me. It's not, but there is an expiration for all that stuff in the ground. Well, it's it's it's funny when I wasn't funny, interesting, when I was reading the book, and you were talking about how people you know cut down trees until they wiped out whole forests and then they had to stop doing it and then they had to start discover coal. And you know, and as as every new source of energy that we find, you know, we're we're we're we're we're sucking up oil out of the earth and stuff, and and you know, natural gas. But I mean, at what point with how many people are here, at what point is it just not gonna produce anymore? I mean, we can only squeeze, we can only squeeze so much juice so much, yeah. From that, you know, and we're gonna get there. You're gonna love this next part of the story, which is the real the one of the two breaking points in the book. Yeah. So photosynthesis gave us all our forest, gave us all our plant life. But what life didn't figure out is how to digest the trees and the plant matter. Yep. And that piled up for hundreds of millions of years and got compressed more and more because it wasn't. Decaying and that matter that biomass over hundreds of millions of years became coal. That amazing! Yeah, Mother Nature gave that to us, and geology gave that to us. All that photosynthesis, if you do not have a way to harvest flux from your star, your planet will never ever become advanced. That is a prerequisite. And I will anyone who wants to debate that, this is a kind of a bit of a new idea in science. I will debate that. Planets don't come, as I've already shown, they don't come with an energy source. You must accumulate it. Solar collectors from plants gave us the coal. And then the phytoplankton in the ocean, similar thing, when it died, it settled in the bottom of the ocean. And all of those organic molecules, we can't comprehend hundreds of millions and billions of years. Our minds are not equipped for it. But over that scale of time, that's what gave us oil. So you um so when I was reading your book, it kind of got got through it in like as you're laying it all out, and obviously it's energy based, but um, you know, where are the little green men suggesting that um you know, as as you're breaking down in the book, it's it's saying that we're we're just an anomaly. Um that like it's basically anomaly after anomaly after anomaly. Yes, to that led to us. And so when I was reading, I was thinking, I was like, okay, you know, I get it, you know, like like so the idea is as much as you hope and wish there was an a UFO in your backyard or little green men or however you want to put it um coming there, um, it's just it just it just feels so impossible. This like the fact that it happened here, all these things had to happen at this time and that time, that the odds of it happening elsewhere are just just next to impossible. Well, the New York Knicks last night had a 0.2% chance of coming back and winning the game, and they won it. So that right there proves one of my points, and I love that you said that. You're exactly right. Even big numbers can get broken down, and that's that's kind of how many plan how many plan see how many planets are there, or how many galaxies are there in the universe right now? You know what I mean? Like, that's that's the whole thing. If everyone, if people aren't familiar, thank you for bringing that up. If people aren't familiar with the Fermi paradox, we all have that same paradox. We don't need Fermi to tell us that. We look out and see thousands and thousands of stars, and in our own minds, we already have that same imagination. Just the sheer number says there must be other civilizations out there. That's the paradox. We haven't we haven't seen them to the degree. What I'm saying, this is important. I'm not discounting anyone else's experience that they may have had, not even at all. And that's possible. I've I've I've had my own experience. Um, and there's no it's not important for me to share that. I'm not discounting any of that at all because the numbers are staggering. Two trillion galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars, each with potentially multiple planets. So the numbers are quite staggering. And so our probably from a scientific standard, this is the bar that we need to demonstrate advanced civilization. It's probably first gonna come from what are called techno signatures that we're gonna look out, and we have been for 50 years or more already, 60 years. We're gonna look out and train our radio telescopes, our infrared telescopes or whatever, into the the surrounding galaxy, the Milky Way, and some signal will come to us that we determine, hey, this has to, this is not natural signal. This is coming from some other intelligent source. You see what I'm saying? That's probably gonna be our first, and and I'll be thrilled with that. Because forget the gigantic expanse that you have to travel, you know, blank blank light years to get someplace else, right? That's obviously its own issue. Um, but just getting back to what does it take for civilization to send out radio signals. We've been doing it for about 120 years now, maybe 140 years. That's that's that's what that's always scared the crap out of me. You know what I mean? Because like I'm like, I always look at it like, okay, I'm in the woods, okay? I'm camping. Okay, that's a great place to be. Close your goddamn um cooler, put the food in the car, don't be eating chips in the middle of the night because we don't want those critters and those bears and whatever the hell's out there to come and do your thing. So be as quiet as you can, you know, or be as intimidating as you can so that way that they don't mess with you. And and we're sending all this stuff out into space, you know, and it's it's funny kind of thing. Telling people we're here. Yes. Well, I think I think it's insanity, and I'm like, how are these really smart guys like doing this comfortably saying, okay, we're gonna tell, oh, you know, we've just we we know all the crazy stories the dreamers come up with, right? Like we're let's let's put a signal out there to let them know that we're here. Like we're like we're like a fish or we're like a worm on a hook, right? Like potentially. Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. Yes. Uh Terry, I'm sure you you don't know this because I don't I don't know how much you listen to the podcast, but I've said this on here uh several times. I I'm not worried about that because I think about it like if aliens did visit our planet, what are the chances they're coming here with like destruction in mind? Like most I think that if somebody right, if somebody visited here, they'd be like ex exploratory, or I want to meet you. They're curious. They're 100%, they're curious. But what if I agree with that? But what if they're not coming here? What if they're already here? Like, what if like it's kind of like kind of like you're you're at a concert and then a Mosh pit breaks out, and you're like, oh shit, I don't want to be part of the Mosh, but you kind of scoot to the edge. You still want to see the show, but you don't want to be you don't want to be in the pit. So you just you kind of dodge it and stuff, and you know you avoid everybody and you see the big maniac, you hide behind the other maniac that's in front of you. You know, like what if it's like that? Like, you know, we've all gone, you know, we we all know what hunting is. You go, you you go out there and you have a duck call, whank a wank, you know, and you try to reveal the ducks in. And then if and if they get it, if you're not good at it, they're like, oh shit, I'm not going over there. I don't trust that call. It doesn't sound right. So to me, it's like so so I look at it like I'm like, okay, so let either they're let's let's say aliens are out there, right? And let's say this did all happen. Or or you're absolutely right. And I mean, I think all you're I you know, you everything is sounds that you're saying and what's happening here, and I want to hear more of the story, but I want to I want to kind of get this out there is um what if they're already here? I mean, what if they what if what if there are parts of the earth that we just haven't seen or explored, or what if they been here so much longer as they dodged the cataclysms, they've avoided stuff, and they are utilizing these resources. And maybe they they have figured out other forms, you know, like um you were talking about fusion infission and and all like the the the nuclear, you know, um um options for traveling and all this stuff. And like so, I mean, but what if they had what if they don't even leave? What if they the farthest they've gone is the moon? What if they don't even really leave the planet? They just have a technology and been here for a long time. Like there's this there's this chance that you know that may like I mean we know a lot of stuff, but I mean uh you know I mean if something wants to hide from you and they're better at it than you are, they can hide from you. Well, I was like, Well let me add to that. I appreciate you bringing that up. Oh go go ahead. You go I was just wanted to throw this in. Uh um I obviously I believe in aliens and it'd be great if we found them. But um I I I so agree with this, and I found this today. I won't tell you who shared it on on uh YouTube because some people might not like them. But this guy, I was listening to this guy today, and he's like, You see all these videos of aliens of what people say are aliens, like these lights are zipping around in the sky, they're up, down, left, right, and they're just moving so fast, and we're like, Oh, humans can't do this, so it has to be alien. And then he says, Why the hell are aliens doing that? Like, and I'm like, Oh my god, that's the first time I've actually thought of that. I'm like, huh, he's right. He's like, they're they're like what teenagers that they just got their permit, and they're like, they're out there driving this spaceship. Like, that's the the mother the mother ship is out, the mother ship is somewhere out in the distance, and they're gonna send the kids to actually explore the earth, right? So you gotta go out there, like you said, you here's your here's your permit. Go out and fly the Jetson mobile around Earth. And so they're yeah, just go down there, go in the backyard, screw around, you wreck something, it's not gonna be a big deal, no one's gonna notice. So it's all right. As unbelievable as it sounds, it's like it seems like it's probably more our government or someone else's, and we're just testing it to see what it can actually do. And that makes more sense. I'm like, oh, I never thought of it that way, but yeah, the government angle makes sense, but there's still a chance that they could they're whatever these potential beings are, whether they're aliens or they're still alien to us. Like, what if they are from here? What what if the hole in the center of the earth is real? What if the ice wall is real? I'm not gonna get into flat earth. I don't, I don't, I don't really believe in flat earth stuff. However, like I have never seen, you know, anything, you know, the earth or anything other than what people show me in pictures. I've never been up there to to look down and say, oh, this is what's happening. So so you know, really, I only know what I've been told. And if and if it was if it was, you know, 2,000 years ago, you know, and and and where you know, we might be, you know, the Bible would be all I know. And and God created the earth in seven days and his son Jesus came down, you know, and if it was, you know, even longer, 10,000 years ago, we'd be, you know, the Mayans and and you know, worshiping sun gods and and having calendars and you know, so so like what if these things, you know, all these things line up. What what if what if they're just like, oh shit, these guys are crazy, let's step back and watch from afar. So like what if what if they're already here? What if there is a technological and they are using these resources? Yeah, let me let me add to that be a little bit to kind of captivate and to late your you and your audience a little bit. I've already speculated this as you heard me say earlier, that almost certainly, almost necessarily, alien life form will be carbon. And again, I won't go into the details because that'll take a little bit longer, but it's going it's it's almost necessarily going to be, and I'm gonna discount silicon right away because I said it's thrown out, Star Trek said this 50 years ago, you know, they created these silicon life forms. Silicon dioxide is quartz, it's a rock. Carbon is the chemistry of flexibility, and lots of not just Bendy, because obviously Bendy is important, but silicon is the chemistry of permanence when it reacts with oxygen, and you can't have advanced civilization without oxygen, it becomes a rock. So believe me, life is not based on silicon. And here's another thing to counter that I've never heard anybody else say. We already have a four billion year experiment going on, and there are no forms of life created with silicon. Silicon and carbon don't compete. Silicon dwarfs the amount of carbon in our crust already. They're not competing. So if silicon was a possibility for life, we already would have seen it over four billion years and we haven't. So I'm gonna add to the idea what you just said. I believe an advanced civilization will be, get ready for this, shockingly like us. It almost has to be. You must be able to manipulate your environment in very exquisite detail. You can't create advanced technology without the ability to do that. And you have to have very, very good vision, a similar visual system that we have. Lots of different visual systems evolved. I know that the creationists loved, well, there's no the eye is too complex to have just evolved. Well, there's not just one eye. Which eye are you talking about? There are dozens of visual systems. And it involved incrementally, again, over spans of time, we're just not equipped to understand. And so I believe, I'm not discounting or saying it is, that there could be other alien life forms that are basically like us. I'm telling you, it's gonna be shockingly a surprise when we actually see that, how similar they are. What do you think about it? What do you think about all this disclosure stuff? Do you think was it Project Bluebeam where they're gonna fake some big revelation of like aliens and and all this stuff? Or like, I mean, it's it's getting kind of crazy right now. They're like there's there are some places where they're saying that they've admitted to seeing like four different types of aliens, you know, like the bug ones, um, the grays everybody kind of knows about, then the reptilians, and then I think the um the Nordic Nordic ones that are tall, they have blonde hair. They look just like us, basically. But they're big. Like, so are they are they feeding, are they feeding in so is this is is it Project Bluebeam where they're gonna do the fake thing? So are is this all part of it? Like they've been saying there for 10 years, they're gonna do this thing, and they're gonna tell everybody aliens and new phones are real, but it's fake. Don't listen to them. And so like now all this stuff's coming out, right? And they're saying it, and I'm like, holy shit. Like, I'm like, I'm like, okay, um, so either they're saying it, um, and it's real, and I'm like, holy shit, or it they they they're right, they are just saying this stuff because you know, people aren't as religious anymore, people don't have faith in any like anything. It's just it seems like we're just lost as a species almost at times. Not everybody, but I mean we're like we're so split and divided, and like they need to, you know, if if if there is some sort of like secret new world order government controlling everything, you know, is is our are is this stuff real? Or like or or what we hear are we just watching a show? You know what I mean? Like, is this stuff so how does that fit into you and and what you have going on? Yeah, the answer the answer to that is that no, zero, no advanced civilization can ever emerge without an abundant, dense, readily accessible, transportable energy. That is a that's a no-go. Let me give you an idea about this. So, real quick, what you're saying is our government's lying to us. They don't lie to us, Terry. They always tell us honestly, they always honestly tell us the truth. So, you know, I'm having a hard time. I'm having a hard time with this. I'm just kidding. You can continue to think I had to drop that in there. So um, most people, depending on where you live, and maybe you you you guys have seen this, or certainly your audience, where you are, so geographically where you are in the country, or if you travel a lot, most people have experience pulling up to a uh train crossing, the arms are coming down, the lights are flashing, the bells are clanging, and the train clink, clink, clank totally wide. You just pull up, you're in a hurry to go someplace, and it's a coal train. And you know that this is a mile or a mile and a half long, right? Clank, clank, clank, clank, and you're sitting there waiting for the coal train to pass. That's frustrating, right? It's aggravating, it's a mile or a mile and a half long, just hundreds of cars. So let me give you an idea about how much fossil fuel equivalent, so the equivalent of coal, oil, and gas, has been burned since the 1800s. Your coal train will reach from Earth to the Sun 93 million miles. That's how much fossil fuel equivalent we've burned in coal to create what you see. The hospitals, the schools, the roads, the bridges, the cars, the artificial intelligence, the computing, spaceships, all of that has consumed a 93 million mile coal train. Isn't that crazy? Like how did our little planet produce so much stuff to reach the sun? Produce all that. Well, okay, now going backwards, it's the photosynthesis that gave us that. The planet didn't do it. Life gave us that. If you don't develop photosynthesis, you now we are, admittedly, we go into space, right? We have satellites going there, we've got we just trip around the moon, we've been we've been to Mars. People don't know. Or they go to a studio. Or they go to a studio. Or they go to a studio. It still takes energy to do that. To maintain entropy, okay, because entropy is the the tendency to chaos, right? Yep. It's the second law of thermodynamics, and let me assure you, in 13.8 billion years, it's the heavyweight champion of the universe undefeated. Everything tends to decay. So, in order just to make civilization continue to go every day, we burn a 5,500-mile-long coal train to keep just to keep just to maintain it. That's not growth. If that train derails, no electricity, no refrigeration, no transportation. We're dependent on that every day. It won't last, people. We have to get to nuclear back to nuclear fission. People don't need me to tell them to develop nuclear fusion. We're already doing that. But we need to support it conceptually. We need to understand it. Nuclear fusion is the only thing ever that will get us off the fossil fuel. And you were talking about like in the book I was reading, and you were talking about what the the the size of a marble in this contained unit. What I can't remember what you call it, what you called it, could like produce enough energy that would like burn for like weeks or something. I can't remember what it was. I can't. I'm telling you. Yeah, exactly. So so you no, you no, you no, you the concept is right, exactly. And so what it does is it just compares the energy content. And and people are mistaken the idea about energy. Energy has to either produce or be converted to usable work. Let's say I can tell this with you, gentlemen, we have a good energy. I just know that. If I were there, we'd be I mean, we'd be yucking it up, backslip slapping high five and all that, right? We have a good energy. I never do any of that stuff. Don't assume that I would do that. I would stand there with my arms crossed and make everybody. Your co-host and I would say yeah. So we have a good energy, but you know what? That energy doesn't drive a car or fly a rocket ship. So when people talk about energy, they just assume that energy is makes the world go around. It doesn't. It has to be converted into useful energy. And so normally they they compare to coal or something like that, that it's that's known it will we can extract this much work out of coal. So you have a barrel or multiple multi-barrels of oil. And again, this all gives us heat. It's the heat that we use to boil water, and the water turns a steam turbine. I'm gonna come back to that in just a second. A pellet of uranium you releases that same amount of energy and heat. Does that make sense, then? So you're you're equating how much energy, work energy you can extract out of a pellet of uranium compared to multi-barrels of oil. That's what the difference is. Did you ever uranium is abundant? Did you ever hear of uh Stanley Meyer? He's the he's the he's the guy, but I'm not sure. He's the guy who um supposedly created um a fuel, turned water into fuel. He made like a water car and then supposedly disappeared and stuff. There's a documentary about it, and like he like he took he took figured out a way to make water a fuel. And I don't know the science behind it. I don't know if anybody does. Well, I can tell you the science, I can tell you the science right now. So every few years the water engine makes a comeback, and not because it works, but people forget about thermodynamics. So let me tell you this your house is on fire. A fire fire engine comes down your down the street to your house. What's he put on your house? Water. Yeah water is not a fuel. Water is oxidized hydrogen. It's just simple. I mean, nothing can be more simple. I'm telling you, thermodynamics literally, not me saying this, is undefeated in 13.8 billion years. You can't get money, you can't get energy from nothing. You literally cannot. It's not allowable in the universe. It's not just here, it's everywhere in our universe. The universe is considered a closed system. And so, no, there's no there's no tracking energy out of water. Okay, let's just say you want to you have a lady come over to the house, you want to build a nice fire in your fireplace, you go down to the store, right? And you have that box of oak, because you don't have you don't have you don't have enough wood, but now I need I need wood for this fire tonight. You have a box of nice oak split for you, goes in your fireplace. And next to it is a box of ashes. Which one do you buy? Yeah, the box of you don't buy the ashes, it's alright, it's already burned it's already burned. The ashes already burned. Yeah. Okay. I don't have time for it to be. You know what's funny? That it's funny you say that. That's spent carbon. It's funny you say that because you know, I I I heard Neil deGrasse Tyson talk, and I don't I don't follow him a lot. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. He's he kind of does his thing. But he said something that like always stuck out with me, and it kind of fits into this whole thing was he said that he would he didn't want to be cremated when he when he died. He wanted to be buried because, you know, he wants to to to break down and the bugs to you know eat him and the bird to eat the bugs, and then the you know, the bird to get eaten by the cat, and the cat, you know, goes back to the earth and all this stuff, and I was like, you know, that it makes sense. And when you think about it, when you burn stuff you you sterilize because when everything's burned ash is ash anything like you said it's it's waste it's done it's gone right is you can't create it's going to it's in well here here we're incinerating people we we we cremate people and that's just an incredible waste of energy right wouldn't that being wouldn't that being not necessarily you you know um in in in how we use our energy that can't be considered a a waste compared to what we're wasting honestly yeah um everything goes back to earth and that that those are all examples of entropy entropy wins no matter what the world will eventually cool and the lights will go out that's just simply going to happen that's in trillions and trillions and trends of years it is no it's it's frightening and again it's one of those things our minds our minds not equipped to even begin to understand because the time scales are so great that the idea that this expanding what's happening is cooling that's where we got the big bang we rewound time at some point the earth was denser smaller and much much hotter and now it's been expanding out and as it cooled the energy this is Einstein's right E equals MC squared the energy turned into matter not all matter can be turned into energy and all energy can be turned into matter but they're an equivalence and so that energy as it cooled it did two things it allowed matter to form quarks and fundamental particles quarks and electrons and that's what created our our hydrogen first all these other elements came after stars exploded and neutron stars collided so all of our elements came later the universe initially had hydrogen and some helium so all of this matter that we're made of came much much later the hydrogen helium is what started everything. And the second thing it left is the cosmic background radiation. That's where we got the idea because as the universe expands and all of this energy is redshifted right meaning that your your um wavelengths get longer. So the shorter wavelengths like your cosmic rays and your gamma rays and your x-rays are high energy but as it expands it's like the train that comes to you right that's the Doppler effect. Well that's sort of the same thing happens in our universe to light so when you compress a sound wave or a light wave it blue shifts but when you expand or is moving away from you it red shifts. So that left the cosmic background radiation and that's what we still see. So that's where the idea of the Big Bang came from we're rewinding back time okay if we have the signal that's reaching across the universe at some point that energy was much higher energy. That's where it came from it's pretty amazing isn't it it's yeah it's awesome when I'm listening to you talk it I think I just love this concept I it makes me want to write a movie about a dentist who talks about all this crazy like energy and space and the Big Bang because I went to I went to the dentist this morning and I brought your book with me because I was kind of reading up in there just kind of reading rereading some things I I I had I I remembered and I I was I was finishing up the other night and I I was forgetting stuff. I wanted to take some notes and so I was in there and I was talking to the um the hygienist who was cleaning my teeth and stuff and we always talk you know she'll be cleaning my teeth and she'll ask me a question I'm like oh and then like I we I spit and we I tell her we talk about our kids and you just talk about crazy stuff and I was and I'm imagining I'm like man Terry like you're doing dental surgery so are people completely out or are they awake and if they're awake you better be talking to these people about this stuff like you burst so did you know you know that um you know back in photosynthesis and the energy and uh I want to know why Mike did this that's smart I know I'm like I'm loving it I'm like like when do you retire like what what what happens next when you retire like you like what you is this energy the um what's what's the energy company that you have I have written down here um fusion star project my my yeah is that your retirement plan to push to push forward with that no actually no none of it is I'm gonna work for I'm gonna work until the day I die um this is I actually it's awareness right that the project yes it's all about awareness energy literacy yeah energy literacy I actually got out of clinical dentistry after 26 years and at 55 years old I went back and did my radiology residency at 55. It's a two and a half year hospital residency. It's my I have a friend I have a friend who uh does radiology and I'm telling you like we well we're still close now but for that like two years that he was in school he told us all he said look guys I really want to do this so I'm gonna have to make sacrifices and he's like and we're probably not gonna talk and man he was right he but he buckled down and I he was talking to me sometimes he'd say all these he had to know all the bones and all this stuff so I kind of I mean not firsthand I didn't do it but I have a friend who did it and I can he just remember like damn that is a lot of work. Yeah it's a lot of work yeah dentistry is a lot of work and radiology is a lot of work too is ACDC likes to say and I love to quote it ain't as easy as it looks and it's not a big bowl. How how old are you Terry? I'm 65. 65 yeah you sound young yeah you sound young on the phone that's nice of you to say thank you you know I I love this stuff so much I I'm trying to get some traction on my um energy initiative and policy initiative um but I wrote I've written this book and I just finished its companion book it's titled Earth the Goldilocks Planet because what you were mentioning earlier is exactly true. Winning the lottery is rare and I don't know exactly the numbers are but if you win it week after week after week well first of all you're gonna get arrested but let's just say that you just kept winning it that's the likelihood of all of these improbable events not only just events but the perfect timing for them to occur to create a planet that can host intelligent life. And I I'm not sure how we are on time because we have about five ten minutes left so we we can we can do that. I can talk forever so let me tell you that's what we do that's why we started a podcast that's why we started a podcast you know what you should actually come on again if you want to talk some crazy stuff because you know I wasn't sure how I wasn't sure how this whole thing was going to go but okay but but but we would love that I mean you we can talk about anything space you you can be the smart guy that when we sound like a bunch of idiots we're like hey terry i love this on the smart stuff because we we don't know what the hell we're doing anymore i love let's do um if we're if we're running uh time let's make sure we uh whatever you want to talk about let's let's talk about that just i'll i'll make this i'll make this story real quickly and real quick and you don't have to rush you know just yeah you don't have to rush but we yeah sure but we could we could do this again and I'm gonna be sensitive to it because you guys have you have your own you're have your own chi yeah so here's the second breaking point the second breaking point is the the next critical thing in this ladder so we have two things that have to happen in parallel one you have to have mother nature cooperating in giving you some way somehow some storable energy later that later requires intelligence that's where we came from right yeah so these have to happen we we imagine a MacGyver like alien on some rocky barren planet where did that come from no those don't happen intelligence only will emerge if there's already an enriched environment in which to explore DNA and evolution only care about one thing reproductive success they don't say we're gonna make an intelligent creature he'll figure it out that's not how it works it's incremental so you have to have a million things to play with already before intelligence were evolved and eventually we figured out how to control fire. About a million years ago we we captured lightning or burning forest or or um lava and and lit something on fire 4000 years ago it's documented is about the earliest time and this is a long time. Yeah we learned to start fire we we have okay this fire was deliberately an intentionally started we have the remnants of flint or whatever it was that began this fire so 400,000 years ago okay that right there separated we were people then like they were a little bit hairier because they were like you and I right um those were people 400 000 years ago and that was the advent of human technology right there that human technology led to everything else incrementally and I'll talk I'll explain this very quickly it gave us safety at night from predation it allowed us to cook our food regularly which makes the calories much more abundant you need the world civilization life needs abundant and surplus energy reliably unbroken that's what we have photosynthesis feeds the ocean photosynthesis feeds the land everything is 100% dependent on photosynthesis today we learned that you have a big fire you wake up in the morning and clay turned into pottery now with pottery we can store things we can carry water we can take containerize our food this advanced civilization someday at some point someone went out hey there's something shiny in the bottom of the fire pit what is it it's metal when you heat certain rocks you get metal we had bronze later came iron later came steel these aren't inventions they're discoveries and this is what gave us our technology it was slow over tens of thousands of years but look what it led to eventually little by little from fire then we learned to harness it we would develop steam we could use steam steam does work and then we created the steam engine once we discovered coal now coal and oil were known but they were a nuisance they they were a novelty it wasn't until people learned man when I heat this up it gets really hot it gives me a hot flame so coal is like burning a rock basically and so the steam engine came and so the steam engine let us expand our work so it took a lot of the drudgery away from the human experience and now we're now we're burning fossil fuels and replacing human work with that and that just that's obviously the industrial revolution look where we've come in 200 years. It wasn't the lack of intelligence if you look at the back of my book it has a picture of Newton right under an apple tree. And the question at the top was why didn't Newton go to the moon this is my own joke and this shows you why people don't invite me to the party he didn't have the energy he didn't if anybody could have gone to the moon Newton could have he didn't know he was sitting on the very energy that it takes a rocket ship to go to the moon or actually to build a rocket ship. So what story I told early go ahead I was just saying I just said the story I told earlier about the 93 million mile coal train yeah it took that much energy to get where we are today. You know it's it's we built on that slowly by slowly. When you say this coal train it's weird you say that because years ago I had this dream and this isn't a joke or anything. So like I you're looking at me like I was like gonna tell a joke I'm like I'm not telling joke. I had this dream no well we're we're assholes so we just say stupid stuff and like you you you're you're you have this all these points to make so typically if it was another asshole that gets on the show as a guest we would just bust their chops or or whatever. So I don't I don't I don't want to deserve it I don't want to interrupt the the the flow of this this knowledge and I think you know you have a lot to say so it's cool. But I did have this dream and when you said the train stretching out to um the sun I had this dream when I up it might have been 20 years ago. I don't even know how long ago it was but and I've always I I don't always have dreams but when I do I usually remember them and and there was this thing in the sky and it it I always described it as a train almost almost like almost like the black round containers all locked together in the sky like like it was just hovering there kind of like and I it was go it went as far as I could see in the sky. And it was like a a UFO or something flying in the sky and I remember I was driving down the highway and I was like what the hell is that thing and I kept hearing bang pop and all these noises and stuff and every time it did it was almost like when you whip a rope and the rope kind of ripples a little bit it almost did that and then it like lost its float or whatever in the sky and this one the the one end of it started to fall and then like like just like whipping a rope along the along along the dirt road you know it just kind of whips down and creates dust it just crashed to the ground. Is that weird that's what I thought about this dream I had it when when when you said that whole thing I was like maybe it was a cold train to the sun maybe the cold train yeah cold train is that is that name but cold train yeah the the yeah the great great yeah but we're we're actually really close to the end here so um I got you are you had a good point to like do you you want is there anything you want to pitch is there anything you want to pitch or yeah I'd love to have you back on so if there's if there's more you want to talk about in the future man I don't you know we have we we've got some dates locked in but we've got some open dates I'd have you back on and we could look at it. Yeah we could do this again you know gentlemen thank you very much um this let's do this a couple of things um one my Goldilocks book is coming out um soon it's with editor right now and I expect it'll be uh ready to be published and you know I'm gonna make I I appreciate you sharing my book and and more importantly my Fusion Star project uh that's what's important to me my my intent is not to promote this I literally have an idea that I believe has been underdeveloped and I'm just trying to get my idea out into the space it's not about making money for me honestly it's not because it cost me $20,000 so far and I haven't made that much money from it so that's not that's not why I'm doing it. So it's not a matter of promoting my book as much as it is is to sharing the ideas in it. Because I know that not everybody enjoys that type of reading but I think if you present it in a way and I I love this format because people will absorb this content this way probably better than reading it. And so how about when I get the Goldilocks book out published um because it has some more interesting stuff in it and we can get into the Drake equation a little bit more which is more of a formal answer to the the Fermi Paradox question. Maybe we can reschedule for that if you're interested in that. Dude yeah I'd love to have you on and honestly if we want to talk about aliens I'll you know we'd invite you back on I'll tell aliens I'll send you a text say hey for sure Barry I know that you don't believe in aliens and you don't think they're real because they didn't develop in space. However we're having an episode where we're gonna talk about it and we want you on there to tell us why we're wrong. You know it's a good you guys are you guys are great dreamers but you know the truth is you know they didn't develop they didn't have fossil fuels in the sun they work in the Goldilocks you know so um but yeah dude um uh that's this was uh I I hope you got out what you wanted to this was uh it was really great to have you on you're a cool dude and uh uh you guys if you want to read a book you got you have something you want to say Josh uh no good well so Terry I usually tell a joke at the end of uh our podcast and I want to know if you wanted to hang around for it. It's not that bad. If you do anything 100% I do. No I'll I'll give I'll give his final wrap up and you can tell a joke. All right his jokes suck just for the record Terry they suck. All right so these uh two aliens they land in the Arizona desert near a gas station and it's closed for the night and they approach the gas pumps and the younger alien addresses it and he says greetings earthling we come in peace take us to your leader. Of course the gas pump doesn't respond. The younger alien he yeah he becomes kind of angry at the lack of response and the older alien says I'd calm down if I were you the younger alien you know he ignores the warning and repeats his greeting again and there's no response. He's pissed off at the at the gas pump's you know haughty attitude and he draws his ray gun and he says greetings earthling we come in peace take us to your leader or I will fire the older alien again warns his comrade and he says you probably don't want to do that. I really think that's gonna make him mad he says rubbish says uh the younger cocky alien he aims his weapon and he shoots him and there's a huge explosion and a massive fireball rolls roars to him roars towards him and it blows the younger alien off his feet it flies back a couple hundred yards a little while passes and when he finally regains his consciousness he focuses his eyes and there's the older alien standing over top of him shaking his head he says what a furious creature he says uh he damn near killed me how'd you know he's gonna be so dangerous and the older your alien he leans over him and he places his feeler on his friend and he says if there's one thing I've learned during my intergalactic travels you never mess with a guy who can loop his penis over his shoulder and stick it in his ear and that if nothing else good bit of wisdom right there's a little bit of those around your shoulder and hooks in your ear. There's a there's a little bit of there's a little bit of energy in there. A little bit of energy built the gas I mean it worked it worked for the whole thing. So Terry he had he had an entire he had an entire library of jokes that that was the most fitting energetic joke he came up with it it worked for this episode. Terry we're we're pumped to have you on we're we'll talk again I have your I have your information thank you very much and uh we uh if you want to check out his book Where Are all the little green men and uh you can check out his organization what's it again Terry I got it written down but I got to pull it up here. Thank you very much fusion Fusion Star Project FusionStar Project if you reach the reach at Fusionstarproject.org all one word just fusionstarproject.org and I'll take you to the website thank you very much for that I really that I really appreciate that's the one that's I want to help people understand energy and it will run out and there is a pathway that I create on my website to get us there human flourishing human thriving for everybody. Awesome that's that's uh you heard it from the man himself Terry Adair thank you again Josh thank you Terry it's great learned a lot tonight and uh hey Josh thank you I can't wait to have you back on great joke and uh looking forward to it we'll let you know when this airs and uh pet chat crew we'll see you next Tuesday thank you very much gentlemen